Brain Aware Podcast
The Brain Aware Podcast, exploring the science of success. We harness the power of human biology to help people—and organizations—rise to their potential. Join internationally recognized thought leader Dr. Britt Andreatta and talent strategist Justin Reinert as they explore the neuroscience behind today's workplace challenges, like change, teams, and leadership.
Each episode unpacks actionable insights from cutting-edge research to help you create environments for people to do their best work. Whether you’re an executive, people leader, talent professional, or lifelong learner, you’ll walk away with tools you can use today. Listen to become more brain aware.
Brain Aware Podcast
From Forced Compliance to Willful Participation
What does it truly take to transform a global organization? Carlos Butler-Vale pulls back the curtain on his remarkable journey from higher education advocate to corporate change leader in this thought-provoking conversation.
Carlos shares his pivotal realization while implementing McDonald's first-ever global DE&I strategy across 149 markets: successful change requires shifting from forced compliance to willing participation. His revolutionary "globally consistent yet locally relevant" approach empowered regional teams while maintaining strategic alignment—turning what could have been an 8-month decision into meaningful action.
The conversation delves into psychological safety as the foundation for authentic organizational change. Carlos reveals why giving employees decision-making authority isn't enough—they need to feel genuinely safe using it. Without this crucial element, people inevitably revert to old patterns, regardless of new processes or frameworks.
A startling revelation emerges when Carlos shares that approximately 70% of employees distrust their HR departments—a statistic that fundamentally undermines traditional feedback mechanisms and change initiatives. This trust deficit is especially pronounced among underrepresented groups, creating a dangerous blind spot for leadership teams relying on engagement survey data.
For leaders navigating today's uncertain landscape, Carlos offers a powerful reframing: look beyond typical 3-5 year planning horizons and consider what it takes to "future-proof" your business 20-30 years ahead. This perspective naturally leads to meaningful conversations about representation and inclusion as business imperatives rather than compliance exercises.
Carlos also discusses his Corporate Cafecito podcast, which reaches listeners in over 50 countries, providing accessible professional development to those without corporate resources or support. His work exemplifies the balance between "doing well and doing good"—achieving business results while creating more equitable workplaces.
For HR professionals feeling overwhelmed by today's challenges, Carlos offers practical wisdom: get out of the office, engage directly with employees, and rebuild trust through visibility and authentic dialogue. His emphasis on focus groups and direct conversation stands in stark contrast to over-reliance on surveys and top-down communication.
Listen now to gain actionable insights from a seasoned change leader who has successfully navigated transformation across industries, cultures, and organizational structures.
Welcome to the Brain Aware podcast, where we explore the science of success. Today, we're diving into an insightful conversation about navigating transformation in global organizations with Carlos Butler-Vale. Join us as we uncover valuable lessons from experienced leaders who are shaping the future of workplace culture.
Britt Andreatta:Carlos, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast and I'm really grateful that in your busy schedule you've made time for us and are part of our inaugural kickoff season here. Tell us a little bit about yourself. I'd love for our listeners to learn a little bit more about your career journey.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Yeah, my name is Carlos Butler Valle Pronouns, are he him? I worked in higher education for a long time and that was actually where I started to really understand, you know, going through higher education, development and a master's program, and then one of the last things that I did in higher education was actually work towards getting internships for our students into corporations, and that was kind of the first time that we really started talking about the need for diversity in hiring or inclusive hiring, and one of the things that I realized was that a lot of our students who were so well prepared because the university that I worked for focused on experiential learning and so it was learning by doing they were so much more prepared than I think a lot of other folks who were just sort of focused on theory that you know, just the simple fact that they were diverse, or the schools that they came from or the neighborhoods that they came from, made it more difficult for them to actually access you know some of these. You know great internships or, ultimately, jobs, and so I ended up deciding that I needed to be part of the solution and so I went into the corporate world and the first time that I extended beyond sort of your traditional HR work was doing inclusive hiring. And so here I was in tech doing inclusive hiring in a space where there were very little to know women, very little to know, you know, diversity beyond, probably, you know south asian and trying to get folks to understand the importance of having these perspectives reflected in the workplace and to make sure that we were creating what is now known as psychological safety what wasn't necessarily at that point known as psychological safety to really get the most out of these diverse perspectives.
Carlos Butler-Vale:And so as my scope continued to increase that was actually probably the first time that I realized that the importance of taking people from what I would say is forced compliance to willful participation, which I hope we can talk about a little bit more. And as my scope continued to increase, particularly on the sort of that bridging that world between DEI and making sure that we're going from DEI to ROI, I just realized that I was seeing a lot of the same thing over and over. Right, how are we going to get people from forced compliance to willful participation? Whether up with one strategy around the DE&I work. And so I went from there to McDonald's Corporation and obviously the scope significantly increased, which also made it, I think, significantly harder, but it was a great challenge. And then, from there, the last job that I had done in the corporate space was actually in the CPG space, and so that was yet again another really opportunity to tie in some of this HR work with.
Carlos Butler-Vale:How are we creating better products, services, marketing campaigns, you know, through our employee base and listening to our consumers to ensure that we were actually both doing the right thing what I call doing well and doing good. So that's a little bit of the work. I also lead a podcast. It's called Corporate Cafecito and it is focused primarily on Hispanic Latinx folks, but we talk about the fact that this is also for people that support us in life and career, because we always try to have some sort of nugget there where people can actually engage in the work and really create awareness, and I also do. I have a consultancy. So it's been an interesting last few years and, honestly, who knows, with everything that's going on right now, who knows?
Justin Reinert:what's next? As you think about you know the transitions that you've been throughout your career. You talked about many. I'm curious if you wouldn't mind sharing one specific change that you navigated that was memorable, either one that was one that was smoothly, or one that was maybe challenging.
Carlos Butler-Vale:I could come up with a lot of examples, but the one I think that really resonates for me was when we put together our very first ever global DE&I strategy at McDonald's Corporation, and part of the reason why I think that was memorable for me is because of the sheer size of the McDonald's system. At that point we were in, I think, 149 different markets, and so you can imagine each one of these being different subsets of cultures and they all have their own norms and they all have their own sort of areas that they want to focus on and things that they want to obviously prioritize, and so to just even approach something like that massive was huge. And one of the things that I realized very quickly was that there was this kind of I would say maybe slight animosity towards anything that would come from corporate, or particularly anything that would come from corporate and US and I think, other than maybe the UK, maybe in some instances Australia, new Zealand, where a lot of the focus around diversity, equity and inclusion was, I think, probably fairly even, or maybe even they were slightly ahead, a lot of folks felt like the US was in a very different journey than everybody else, and so when you would come up with things from what I would call the center and you would say, hey, these are the three pillars that we want to focus on. That in and of itself, even if it was something that they wanted to partake in or something that they agreed with, the even if it was something that they wanted to partake in or something that they agreed with, the fact that it was coming from the center and it wasn't something that was necessarily coming from them, created a lot of significant barriers.
Carlos Butler-Vale:And so when I first started approaching the work, justin, one of the things that I realized was that I needed to go from that forced compliance to that willful purchase the patient and understand what was it about. So one of the first things that we did was ask them what are your top three priorities for the business? What are your top three people priorities? And then helping them sort of go through this work. And then what I realized was that, let's say, if we picked out three priorities, two out of the three were almost always exactly the same Increased gender representation, obviously, figure out how to leverage DE&I to support the business and to increase outcomes. And then there was typically maybe a third that was, you know, sort of different, you know, across the board.
Carlos Butler-Vale:But one of the things that we did was to approach this with a globally consistent yet locally relevant mindset, and just even having that type of terminology and allowing people to pick a third priority once it was clear that the other two were pretty much universal, made a significant difference in having people have this sense of pride and this sense of participation and change. Management in and of itself is always difficult, but when you're engaging in that and people feel that they've had some sense or some input that instantly created buy-in to that place in probably roughly eight months it was to me it was historic, because I think sometimes it takes eight months just to even decide what color paint you want to. You know you want to do for, you want to put on your new remodel, and so that's, I think, probably the biggest one that comes up for me, justin.
Justin Reinert:If you think about lessons learned, If you think about lessons learned.
Carlos Butler-Vale:I'm curious what particular strategy really helped you make that shift from forced compliance to willful participation, globally consistent yet locally relevant mindset that we were starting to help folks kind of align around, because it wasn't about the US, it wasn't about those particular, you know countries, it was simply just saying there's beauty in having global consistency and we've all aligned, but these are the two or three things that we want to do globally. Are we good? Yes, no, okay, great. And then giving people that flexibility to pick that third option, I think really, you know, really was really helpful. The other thing I think from a strategy perspective, that was really important was not just saying that you have a racy model or you know that you understand, you know who the decision makers are and who needs to be informed, and then cause.
Carlos Butler-Vale:One of the things that I kept seeing consistently was that we would tell people that they had the D and then they didn't really have the decision making ability. You know, it was always the same three, five, six people that were kind of approving or or making the decisions on everything else, and so one of the things that we had to do um, as a, as a, I had to put together a cross-functional group to, obviously, you know, work through this um project, and one of the things that we committed to was was this notion that if somebody was, if we were going to give someone the d, if we were going to give someone the D, if we were going to give them that ability to make that decision, that they absolutely had to feel safe and that they did actually have that ability and that we were going to support them when those decisions were made. Because the other thing was and then we had to align around what type of the workplace did we need to create, what type of an environment do we need to create to ensure that those things happened? Because it's one thing to just say, yeah, we're going to back you up, but if that psychological safety isn't there for folks, then they're going to be afraid to make the decision no matter what and at the end of the day, they're going to revert exactly to the same way that things were. And so I would say again, those two big things is having that sense of flexibility, freedom within a framework, you know is obviously often used, and then the other element of it is really ensuring that people not only know their place in this.
Carlos Butler-Vale:You know, know their role in this change initiative. But that we were creating through middle managers. But that we were creating through middle managers, executives and even colleagues right to push each other to say, are always shocked by that because you know they spend a lot of time and energy deciding and launching a change and yet it's.
Britt Andreatta:These other pieces is where it falls apart. Right, if you're forcing instead of working on that locally relevant, or if you're not making sure that people have the resources and the authority to make it happen. Right, or if they don't feel safe enough. So you're really exhibiting what great like business acumen or organizational emotional intelligence looks like, because ultimately, it's the people who make it happen and we have to make sure they have an environment that supports them. So I really love your approach to work. Let me bring us to now in time. What are you working on now? That's kind of exciting to you. Is there any big changes you're navigating or projects you're working on? That has you kind of excited.
Carlos Butler-Vale:So I would say the most exciting thing that I've got right now that I'm doing is the podcast and it really changed, I think, the way, my way of thinking around how to communicate with people and because of the fact that you know when you are in an executive role, you de facto, more often than not have sort of the microphone right and if you say I consulted, and this is what we're going to do, moving forward, and I think this is the best decision, and we've engaged a bunch of other stakeholders and they're all aligned, for the most part it's like okay, everyone sort of fall in line. You know this is what we're, this is what we're going to do. But also there's a little bit of that politics, you know, in the workplace that goes along, where you know sometimes you don't have necessarily, maybe even full autonomy, even though, whether it's on what you want to say or what you want to pursue, and so this, to me, was very different, because I now have this platform. The podcast is listened to in over 50 countries, with over 650 cities. We've got people from all over. I mean, you name it, we've got.
Carlos Butler-Vale:I was just looking at the stats the other day and that, to me, is both exciting and a little nerve wracking, because no one necessarily tells us what topics to approach. We basically have to figure out what we're going to do, and then we also have to make sure that it's obviously something that's providing value to people, and ideally, the topics that we talk about are meant to exhibit some sort of awareness that could hopefully lead to some sort of change. Right and so, whether it's talking about office politics, and you know what are the things that maybe you haven't been told, and you know what are some things for you to consider when it comes to office politics, so then that way you can be a little bit more savvy or what are some great you know ways for you to approach your next, your next self-evaluation, or maybe you have an accent in the workplace, you know, is that, you know how are you thinking about this? Is this a liability or is this something that is something that you could leverage? And so you know that, I think, is probably, I would say, the most exciting thing for me, other than the work that I do with my clients, which I think is obviously a little harder to talk about, but it gives me an opportunity to take some of the things that I am discussing with some of the folks and maybe put them in a more I would say, broader context to say these are the topics that are kind of coming up consistently in that work, and it's absolutely free, so it gives people an opportunity for folks that can't afford, say, one-on-one coaching or maybe are in companies where they can't engage in too much of this work. We wanted to give people an opportunity, the everyday individual, to go onto the podcast, grab this information for themselves, if they want to use it, share it with others that they think it might be helpful for, so that, even if they don't necessarily work in highly supportive organizations or environments, they at least feel empowered to be able to do this.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Now, on the flip side of that, I would say I don't know that it's like exciting per se, but obviously a lot of the things that are happening, particularly here in the US, in the workplace, it's a challenge that I don't know that I could say necessarily welcome with open arms, but there are just constant challenges that are being brought up, I would say every day, every other week at least, or even every week.
Carlos Butler-Vale:It feels like there's something new and something different. I get personally excited by being able to, you know, help create some sort of change around that. It's not something I necessarily want to do, because some of these topics it feels like we're going back in time and it feels like you're trying to convince people about something that ideally, we in my mind I'm like I thought we had already discussed this, I thought we are, I thought people were already on board, you know with with something like this. So it feels in some, some cases, very kind of elementary and kind of, you know, going back to square one. But that's a lot of the work that I'm working on right now with my clients, and so for me that's exciting. I don't know that the work necessarily is exciting, though.
Britt Andreatta:Let's dig into that a little bit more because you know, I think we're all seeing kind of this transition happen, which I agree is very surprising, given how clear the research and the data is that diverse teams and psychologically safe workplaces drive productivity and engagement and performance and all the things corporations want to see in their bottom line. Talk a little bit about what role you're playing in some of these conversations right now. Like you know, you're a change agent, but change agent sometimes means you're driving and pushing. Sometimes it means you're quietly nudging. I'd love to hear a little bit more, because I know you're not the only one having to do this dance right now, so maybe you can share how you're kind of navigating and what role you're playing in these conversations.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Yeah, I would say the first thing I like to do is to engage folks in an exercise where we go through core values Again, because those aren't things that I wrote, those are things that the organization has put forth that ideally are consistent over time. And I think helping folks understand the importance of those consistency and those core values are important and helping them go through those exercises of rediscovering in some cases their core values has been, I think, really helpful, because it's not me saying it, it's you saying it and it's you then taking the moment to express what it is that those things mean, not just to you. But the next part of the process is what does it mean to you as a leadership team? I mostly work with leadership teams, and so it's like what does it mean to you as a leadership team, what does it mean to your board? And then we go through from a stakeholder management perspective what does it mean for your shareholders, what does it mean for your consumers, what does it mean for your employees? And then one of the things that I think is important for me to ask is do you think all of these folks would agree that with your understanding of what these things are? And if not, then we need to figure out where the disconnect is and how we're going to go back and figure out where the disconnect is. Are we okay with the disconnect? And then, if once we're at a good place, making sure that we're going through that stakeholder engagement process to ensure that we're communicating, that we're all communicating, we're all sort of ultimately on the same page. But a lot of the work that I try to do is around self-reflection and also helping folks uncover and maybe rediscover, some of the benefits that they've been able to achieve as a result of to your point, this you know focus on, let's say, diversity, equity and inclusion, or a lot of the work that we're doing now is more than just DE&I, it's really culture.
Carlos Butler-Vale:It's, you know, because I think the biggest challenges right now that organizations are facing is there's a lot of uncertainty in the market. There's a lot of uncertainty out there. You know no one knows. You know where to spend their money, or how much of their money to spend, or where to spend you know, or how, and then you know that obviously drives decisions around hiring, retention. You know the likes and the like, and so it puts people, I think, in a no one likes to be, or very few people. Folks like to work in a place of uncertainty, like you know just as you know, britt, surely you know psychologically it's just not a great space. And so you've got leaders who don't feel psychologically safe or prepared and then they don't know.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Oftentimes what happens is that they kind of revert inward and, rather than communicating outward and making sure that their folks understand that the support is there and what it looks like, they just kind of go very insular and that doesn't. That doesn't help at all. So a lot of the work that we do is to make sure that they're going back and communicating. Um, I like to use kind of the one, two, three framework around any kind of culture initiative. So it's like what's one thing that you want to focus on? Um, let's make sure that we're know, focused on two ways that we're going to support that one thing, and then the third part of that is really the communication element. So let's make sure that we have at least three touch points for us to communicate with people about these changes, and I think it's helping people do a few things. It's helping them get back out in front of folks rather than sort of behind, hiding behind their desks. It's also allowing for the opportunity to reconnect and re-engage beyond engagement surveys.
Carlos Butler-Vale:I was reading the other day that roughly 70 percent of employees have a distrust of their HR department. That is insane to me and I use that term loosely but it is just wild to me that we're operating in spaces where 60 to 70% of employees don't trust their HR department. What the implications of something like that are is massive. Because if your folks are doing their next engagement survey and they're believing that it's either non-anonymous or that nothing is going to get done and, by the way, a significantly higher portion of that population are from underrepresented minority groups, and so when you think about your Hispanic, black, you know women, even Asian employees when you're asking them these questions, they're not giving you the full answer. And if HR doesn't understand that there's a trust disconnect there, they're going out there in front of leadership and giving them this data that says, hey, everything's fine, everything's okay. You're not ultimately working with the right data to be able to make the right decisions or to at least engage in the right initiatives.
Justin Reinert:And so, again, I wouldn't say that it's necessarily fun work, but it's absolutely necessary work, Absolutely necessary work, and so glad that you're on the right side of helping to navigate that I'd love to talk a little bit more about. You know, when you're helping organizations to navigate change. What are some other strategies that you have found to be useful?
Carlos Butler-Vale:From a change, I think, perspective. One of the things that I like to ask, the strategy that I like to ask folks, is how are we future-proofing your business? How are we leveraging culture to future-proof your business? And that is the reason why I bring that up, justin, is because I think a lot of the work that we do in culture work is kind of like a look back. I find that a lot of organizations are sort of stuck in this place of nostalgia. It's like, you know, this is this, we're a family, we love each other, this is great, everything's fine, you know, and it's like okay, that's fantastic.
Carlos Butler-Vale:And then the next thing I uncover is that more often than not, these books are really just operating on a what's coming up in the next year, what's coming up in the next two years? I mean, I would say, if anything, best, you know, best practice that I've seen is probably folks looking maybe three, possibly five years out when it comes to a lot of this work. And I don't know that with the speed of change that's happening right now and I think the uncertainty that we're operating in three to five years is, you know, necessarily really where folks really sort of need to be and with a lot of the culture, work and a lot of the anti-DEI sentiment. I think we keep forgetting about the fact that a big focus of DE&I, particularly in a corporate setting right particularly for a publicly traded, for-profit or, you know, publicly traded organization is making sure that you are impacting outcomes in a positive way. And so what I ask, what I try to do to get folks back to that is what does future-proofing your business look like? And it allows them to go through a process of, to process what that is, and oftentimes, you know it comes out to we're best in class in marketing. We've got the best. You know we've got the best products out there. You know 20, 30 years out, we're thinking in advance about. You know what this is. You know we've got our loyal customer base. You know we're reducing the cost of customer acquisition. We are, you know, whatever it might be right, because the metrics obviously are different for different.
Carlos Butler-Vale:You know leaders in the organization, but then you can go through and ask the question and say, okay, well, how then are we? What is the culture that we need to have here and what does your employee based thing to look like in order to ensure that we are meeting consumers 20, 30 years out, beyond, just the three to five years from today, because it's not enough these days to just plan three to five years out. I mean, like that is such a small buffer, to be honest. And so, to me, why I like that strategy is because it's mostly about asking questions and guiding people to wherever it is that they want to be, and it's not a right or wrong, it's just simply getting them to think about what does that mean? Because you know, when I remember when I, in a lot of the work that I had done, particularly around DE&I, a big part of the focus for us was to bring the internal organizational population, you know the diversity mix to represent typically it was the latest census, right, or you know whatever it might be you could probably do a little bit of a deeper dive and you can say, okay, well, you know, maybe it's our consumer base or whatever it might be.
Carlos Butler-Vale:But you probably do a little bit of a deeper dive and you can say, okay, well, you know, maybe it's our consumer base or whatever it might be, but you're typically trying to reach a representation percentage because what you want to do is you want to make sure that you have those diverse perspectives represented at the decision-making table, so that I'm not the one that's telling you about tacos and tequila.
Carlos Butler-Vale:You know, if I don't know necessarily, you know anything about it. You know, the more people we have around the table that can tell us about how they consume tacos and how they enjoy tequila and whatever it might be and I'm just making that up the better it is that we're able to ensure that we've got the right marketing and product mix. And so I have found great success in just simply asking that, justin, and what I say to folks is that they don't necessarily have to have an answer today, but that this is something that they need to be thinking about consistently, even beyond my time with an organization, and if they are able to do that, then that makes me feel, at least, that I'm getting them to think critically about, you know, the type of change management that they're going to have to do internally.
Britt Andreatta:I think that's really important, carlos, because here in the United States we're in the middle of this weird point in time where, like you mentioned, things seem to be going backwards, and yet that's only in America.
Britt Andreatta:I just came back from Brazil and I was just working with a French company, and the rest of the world continues to really care about these issues. Science very clearly proves the values of these issues, and so I think part of it is also just knowing, like if you know that your strategy of asking people to think a little bit in the future it helps them get out of the immediate pressures of the now to look at that trend, or that you know that overall goal or the values they want to bring to it. I think that's just really smart, because we can get really flustered by headlines and pressures and the tenseness of this time, which kind of brings me to my last question. You know we are living through some stressful times. I wonder if you have any advice for people in the talent space. You know, how do you take care of yourself, how do you make sure you're staying grounded and keeping your energy fueled? I'm wondering if you've got some advice that you could share with other folks who might be feeling the same way.
Carlos Butler-Vale:The most pressing thing that I could, that I feel like that I've seen, is that we need to get HR folks out of the office again. We need to get them back out into engaging with their consumer, you know, with their group, right? Because what I have found is that the HR business partner role or any iteration of kind of an HR business partner or even kind of talent management partner a lot of the conversations are just happening from the top to that individual and then from that individual to the top and again, if there's already a loss of trust, if you're already working with 60, 70%, you know, loss of trust, it's great for you to have a really awesome, fantastic relationship with the leader that you're supporting or the, you know, the leader of the organization that you're supporting, but you've got to figure out a way to start bringing some of that trust back into the field, into the work, and I think that is going out there, being visible and listening to the conversations that are happening around you. Some of the most exciting times that I've ever, you know, in the work that I've done, is actually going out on the field and engaging with people, and the some of the things that I love the most was when people would pull me to the side or say, hey, can I talk to you in the office? And then you know they'll just, you know unload and you know tell you about things that you could have, even that you could only have dreamed of maybe hearing if you were looking at an engagement survey or anything along those lines.
Carlos Butler-Vale:And so I think, anywhere you are in the talent sort of ecosphere, my fear is that we've gotten a lot into this kind of compliance and and I've I've talked about this before it's almost like we've become sort of a secondary arm or it feels like of the legal, of the legal team, you know, and everything we're doing. We're pressure testing against you know what is legally defensible or what is. You know, and that's fine. I mean I think that's important due diligence, but you know, and that's fine. I mean I think that's important due diligence. But you know you mentioned 50 to 60% of change. You know of change initiatives don't, you know, fail, and I think part of the reason why is because we're already working with faulty data to begin with. You know it's change management is already hard. Change is difficult, but when you're not going out there and listening to the end user. It's like me designing an app without really knowing or understanding what the actual needs are.
Carlos Butler-Vale:I would say for the folks in talent, whether you're in talent acquisition, talent development there's obviously a whole slew of things within the talent realm, but make sure you get out there, make sure you're engaging with people. Pressure, test some of the things that you're hearing or seeing in your engagement survey. Trust your gut. If you know that something is just doesn't seem right, go after it and it could be something.
Carlos Butler-Vale:One of the things sorry, really quickly not to get off on a tangent but one of the things that I have found that I think is really interesting is that we've gotten away from a lot of the work that we're doing to try to get feedback from people.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Here's your answer, right, and unfortunately, people don't always necessarily get any kind of maybe an update or anything along those lines. You know, but we go out, we collect this information and sometimes it just goes out into the ether and we don't really know kind of what happens. And sometimes it just goes out into the ether and we don't really know kind of what happens. Right, but when you're engaging in things like focus groups or anything along those lines like I'm a big believer, I think we need to bring more focus groups back into the workplace because it's allowing you for that opportunity to have that rich dialogue. So that's what I would say if you're in the talent space, I think engage in that work is gonna be be really important. You'll see that I think your job, your self-satisfaction in terms 150% connect with yourself, connect with others around you, because this work can become really bitter work, bitter work. Make sure that you give yourself that opportunity to recharge and so that you can come back in committed and excited, like we need you to Excellent.
Britt Andreatta:Thank you for sharing those. I love all of those.
Justin Reinert:Of course, Carlos. Thank you so much for joining us. If people want to find you and learn more about your work, what's the best way for them to do that?
Carlos Butler-Vale:Oh, thank you for asking. The best way would be LinkedIn, and I can certainly share that information with you. But just simply look up Carlos Butler, vale Butler, hyphen Vale, and you should be able to find me. I think my profile is pretty open, so just about anybody can either follow or send a connection invite. But that's where I have all this stuff for the podcast and the consultancy, and then, of course, you know, some some cool projects as well.
Britt Andreatta:Thank you so much for joining us, Carlos. It's really wonderful to connect with you and I hope you have some fun summer vacation plans in line for yourself, cause I know you've been working hard.
Carlos Butler-Vale:Yes, I do, thank you. July is going to be a fun vacation time for me Not the whole month, unfortunately, but at least the second half of July will be really fun. And, justin, we probably got to figure out when we go out and do something fun again too. Yeah, for sure, for sure, thank you. Thanks so much for having me. It's been awesome.
Speaker 1:Thank you for listening to the Brain Aware podcast. To learn more about brain Aware Training and our brain-based approach to change teams and all levels of employee development, visit brainawaretrainingcom.
